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Post by v9733xa on Mar 28, 2018 17:27:28 GMT -5
Thanks for your posts.
Why does Vox have a "shitty reputation" exactly?
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Post by thegreatunknown on Mar 28, 2018 17:35:31 GMT -5
So then what it is about this country, this one solitary country, that makes it have these mass shootings? Why can so many others get it right, or at least have far fewer of those events, that we can't figure out? Or is the "2A" (i've never heard that before, is that like some gun nut shorthand used on reddit or NRA forums or something) supporter just content with mass shooting events and general gun violence to say "meh, my right to have a gun is more important, mental health!"? It's hard to keep this civil with a freaking Ted Nugent avatar, by the way. It's a hindrance to your apparent intelligence which seems pretty real. So I'm confused by most of what you said. First off how can you compare countries to one another? Do you believe that other countries don't have mass shootings like the US does? Here’s the list of the 18 countries with the top death rate per million people from mass public shootings from 2009 through 2015: 1. Norway: 1.888 2. Serbia: 0.381 3. France: 0.347 4. Macedonia: 0.337 5. Albania: 0.206 6. Slovakia: 0.185 7. Switzerland: 0.142 8. Finland: 0.132 9. Belgium: 0.128 10. Czech Republic: 0.123 11. United States: 0.089 Second, the fact is that the United States has the most civilian owned guns making up nearly 48% of the guns owned by civilians in the world. Third, I don't understand why you are attacking someone for their beliefs. If you don't like it then why not just move to a country that is more in line with your morals and values? Why do you have to go after someone for theirs? It seems like thenuge is just stating what they believe. Last point, and not really even a point just a point of view that you probably won't like. I really don't think you've ever shot a weapon. I'm not picking on you or making fun of you even. I've just noticed that the people who are anti 2A have never shot a weapon in their life. You should try it sometime! It's fun:) |
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Post by v9733xa on Mar 28, 2018 17:42:59 GMT -5
Which by the way is pretty amazing that for the first time in our history we are actually asking the government to take away a right. Really? Slavery. Prohibition (sucked but it did happen). Thousands upon thousands of Court cases about speech. Thousands upon thousands of Court cases about discrimination. Those were all rights taken away, at some point, and many forever. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater. You can't refuse to serve African-Americans. You in fact could make the argument that we are considerably less free in terms of actions than ever before, and it's a wonderful thing because people are assholes and there should be laws that prevent and punish dangerous, discriminatory, or offensive behavior. That's how a society works, it evolves. |
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Post by v9733xa on Mar 28, 2018 17:44:23 GMT -5
Third, I don't understand why you are attacking someone for their beliefs. If you don't like it then why not just move to a country that is more in line with your morals and values? Why do you have to go after someone for theirs? It seems like thenuge is just stating what they believe. Really? Love it or leave it? What is this, the 1950s? I'm not attacking his beliefs. I just think they're wrong. That's not an attack. |
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Post by v9733xa on Mar 28, 2018 17:46:35 GMT -5
I realize you probably do not care about protecting yourself or your family by the most effective method possible, a firearm, but there are quite a few of us that would prefer to be able to do so and also get to choose the manner in which we do it. Guns really aren't that scary if you have ever been around them or know how to handle them. I strongly encourage you or anyone else to go to a local range and learn safe handling and do a little bit of shooting. The bullets do not have heat seeking capabilities and guns don't just go off whenever they feel like it. But anyway. I am legally prevented from ever owning a gun due to a felony conviction. Sorry. Also, don't be a jerk, there was no reason for the passive aggressive sarcasm at the end there. I haven't done that and neither should you or this new dude who joined this board just to post here... |
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Post by thegreatunknown on Mar 28, 2018 18:49:15 GMT -5
Jeez dude. If someone doesn’t agree with you, you sure get upset. Just because you think he’s wrong doesn’t mean he is and just because we think your wrong doesn’t mean you are. All this stuff is in the eye of the beholder. The reality is that guns aren’t going away. And who cares when or why I joined. I joined the thread because I happen to care about my right as an American to have a gun.
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Post by thenuge on Mar 28, 2018 19:50:55 GMT -5
Thanks for your posts. Why does Vox have a "shitty reputation" exactly? Here's some links to some articles explaining it better than what I could, they just have a poor reputation as serious journalism... lots of reporting errors and a weird shift to buzzfeed like headlines/articles. 46 Times Vox Totally Fucked Up A Story, Why Do So Many Journalists Hate Vox?, and The Sad Decline of Vox. I'm sure there is more out there, that's just a quick google search. They are pretty blatant with their bias... which I guess could be good or bad. Good because you know how they are going to approach an issue. So in this case, you know they are going to utilize data (or misleading data) that will back up an argument for gun control. Bad because... well, they are a biased news source. But everyone lays the spin on these days. |
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Post by thenuge on Mar 28, 2018 19:57:06 GMT -5
Which by the way is pretty amazing that for the first time in our history we are actually asking the government to take away a right. Really? Slavery. Prohibition (sucked but it did happen). Thousands upon thousands of Court cases about speech. Thousands upon thousands of Court cases about discrimination. Those were all rights taken away, at some point, and many forever. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater. You can't refuse to serve African-Americans. You in fact could make the argument that we are considerably less free in terms of actions than ever before, and it's a wonderful thing because people are assholes and there should be laws that prevent and punish dangerous, discriminatory, or offensive behavior. That's how a society works, it evolves. Yeah, you're right. We have asked the government to take away rights. Didn't think that one through... I just found the concept pretty crazy. For what it is worth, you yourself admit that people are assholes, and I completely agree. I guess to me that means I would like to have the means to defend myself/family/someone else from said assholes. If those assholes have the means to get a gun... because that is what criminals do, they obtain guns regardless of the illegality... then I know that I do not stand a chance unless I myself have a gun. It almost makes too much sense to me. |
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Post by tao on Mar 28, 2018 20:13:42 GMT -5
Jeez dude. If someone doesn’t agree with you, you sure get upset. Just because you think he’s wrong doesn’t mean he is and just because we think your wrong doesn’t mean you are. All this stuff is in the eye of the beholder. The reality is that guns aren’t going away. And who cares when or why I joined. I joined the thread because I happen to care about my right as an American to have a gun. No, neither of them have gotten upset; this has actually stayed very civil. v9733xa has been fairly outspoken in his political views for as long as I've been on the board, and thenuge has been offering counterpoint. I think you might be reading more into this discourse than what's actually going down. |
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Post by thenuge on Mar 28, 2018 20:14:12 GMT -5
I realize you probably do not care about protecting yourself or your family by the most effective method possible, a firearm, but there are quite a few of us that would prefer to be able to do so and also get to choose the manner in which we do it. Guns really aren't that scary if you have ever been around them or know how to handle them. I strongly encourage you or anyone else to go to a local range and learn safe handling and do a little bit of shooting. The bullets do not have heat seeking capabilities and guns don't just go off whenever they feel like it. But anyway. I am legally prevented from ever owning a gun due to a felony conviction. Sorry. Also, don't be a jerk, there was no reason for the passive aggressive sarcasm at the end there. I haven't done that and neither should you or this new dude who joined this board just to post here... I definitely apologize for any asshole remarks. I guess I just got pretty irritated earlier in the thread when I raised quite a few points that I think really need to be examined by anyone who is serious about this conversation, and I think it is a pretty serious conversation. I wasn't exactly enthused that you just wrote "who has data? we do we do" and literally nothing else except charts. Basically glossing over everything I had said. I was expecting... more of a response from you I guess. Obviously didn't know about your conviction so I apologize if that came off as patronizing. But my original thought process remains the same. Need a gun to protect yourself from someone with a gun. |
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Post by thegreatunknown on Mar 28, 2018 20:49:39 GMT -5
Jeez dude. If someone doesn’t agree with you, you sure get upset. Just because you think he’s wrong doesn’t mean he is and just because we think your wrong doesn’t mean you are. All this stuff is in the eye of the beholder. The reality is that guns aren’t going away. And who cares when or why I joined. I joined the thread because I happen to care about my right as an American to have a gun. No, neither of them have gotten upset; this has actually stayed very civil. v9733xa has been fairly outspoken in his political views for as long as I've been on the board, and thenuge has been offering counterpoint. I think you might be reading more into this discourse than what's actually going down. Yeah, I might have read into their posts more than I should have! Not trying to start shit by any means. I guess it's tough when someone posts something in a mocking way. Both parties have. Most likely including myself. I guess there are a few political views that I feel will never get resolved or end up in both parties favor. Gun control being one of them. |
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Post by v9733xa on Mar 29, 2018 17:53:52 GMT -5
Certainly this is an issue not getting resolved anytime soon. I don't really like guns, i can't own one, and i wouldn't feel the need to buy one anyway. I'd be more likely to accidentally shoot myself or my cat if i had one.
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Post by thenuge on Mar 29, 2018 20:06:18 GMT -5
Certainly this is an issue not getting resolved anytime soon. I don't really like guns, i can't own one, and i wouldn't feel the need to buy one anyway. I'd be more likely to accidentally shoot myself or my cat if i had one. Haha well then agree to disagree. I like guns, I can own them, and I do feel the need to have one. People that aren't familiar with guns or don't have experience with them (like you've stated) tend to think they are crazy dangerous. It just takes a little bit of training to familiarize yourself with one. Accidental discharges don't exist. They are called negligent discharges because it takes negligence on the side of the owner for a gun to accidentally go off. Simply put, they don't fire themselves. One of the four (five depending on who you talk to) weapon safety rules to always abide by is to never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. So hopefully that means you wouldn't aim at your cat! Honestly man, good to have the debate. Hopefully I didn't come off as ignorant or an asshole. |
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Post by tao on Mar 29, 2018 23:22:00 GMT -5
Certainly this is an issue not getting resolved anytime soon. I don't really like guns, i can't own one, and i wouldn't feel the need to buy one anyway. I'd be more likely to accidentally shoot myself or my cat if i had one.  |
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Post by thegreatunknown on Mar 30, 2018 6:57:02 GMT -5
Hey you definitely don’t want to shoot your cat. It’s unfortunate that there are people in the world that just want to cause harm. And it’s also unfortunate that sometimes they are legally able to buy a weapon. For that reason I’m happy I have the right to own one. I don’t have a concealed carry and I also don’t own a weapon. But I’m looking into doing so. I talked to a few police officers the other day and this topic came up. Basically I asked them how they feel about people they pull over who conceal. They simply said, “as long as they tell us right off the bat we’re cool.” That goes somewhat back to what thenuge said about respecting fire arms and their capability. Most people aren’t the problem. And people make the weapons discharge purposefully or not. There’s always a few individuals that give stuff a bad name.
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